Workday's Jerry Ting shares five hard-earned lessons from founding Evisort, the AI-powered document intelligence company. Learn his practical takeaways for building in the age of AI, from those early unscalable days to navigating acquisition with clarity and care.
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What if you could change everything with one bold idea?
That's the question at the heart of Jerry Ting’s founder story.
Before Ting joined Workday as the Vice President of Evisort, he was a law student, buried in contracts, prepping for a future in corporate law.
As Ting studied to become a lawyer, he realized that a lot of the work that would go into it was tedious. Repetitive. Expensive.
Clients were paying hundreds of dollars an hour for something that felt like it could be automated. That discomfort sparked a question that would change his career trajectory forever:
What if AI could do this part of the job better?
That moment became the seed for Evisort, one of the first companies to apply AI to contract analysis.
But Ting didn’t set out to build an AI startup. He set out to fix a problem he knew intimately. And when no tools existed to solve it, he and his team built their own.
This is the story of what happened next, and the five lessons he took with him as Evisort, which was eventually acquired by Workday in 2024, scaled and helped shape the future of how AI-powered document intelligence gets done.
Ting launched Evisort because he knew he had a problem worth solving. He witnessed firsthand how slow, repetitive, and expensive contract review was, and he had a hypothesis that AI could help. But he didn’t yet have customers, traction, or proof that the idea would work. So in Evisort’s early days, Ting picked up the phone, knocked on doors, and did the demos himself—the kind of work that was manual, and notoriously non-scalable.
For Ting, doing non-scalable work like personally handling outreach, manually delivering demos, and following up without automation wasn’t a limitation. It was a strategy that allowed him to:
For founders, there’s often pressure to create repeatable systems from day one. But that instinct, Ting argues, is premature. In the early days of entrepreneurship, the goal is often survival, not scalability.
Too many startups over-plan. They invest early in solutions meant for scale, before proving they’re solving something real. Ting believes that early discipline—keeping things small, manual, and customer-obsessed—was essential to crossing the first milestone. Only after you earn traction, he says, should you invest in what comes next.
Conviction isn’t something you delegate. It has to come from doing the work yourself.
When Ting was raising early capital for Evisort, he didn’t rely on storytelling alone. He had already gone out, pitched customers, and seen them respond. He knew the problem was real. He knew the product worked. And he knew the gaps in the market better than anyone because he’d experienced them firsthand as a law student.
That same conviction helped him win over investors.
When you're fundraising, you have to zoom out. Communicate the vision in a way that makes sense to someone who doesn’t live in your world.
He advises founders to treat pitching a VC like pitching their own parents: if you can explain why you’re dropping everything to solve this problem—and it makes sense to them—you’re probably getting close to something fundable.
The takeaway: don’t wait for others to validate your vision. Test it, pressure it, and get clear on why it matters. That clarity is what gets early customers to buy, early investors to back you, and early team members to follow your lead.
From day one, Ting knew that culture couldn’t be an afterthought. He structured Evisort with a flat hierarchy and embedded a founder’s mindset across the team.
Ting started the company with seven people, each of whom grew into leadership roles across core functions like sales, product, and marketing, and carrying the original founder mindset into every part of the business.
By empowering early team members as leaders, Ting didn’t just build a product. He built a scalable culture – one where decisions were decentralized, and entrepreneurial energy wasn’t locked at the top.
As Evisort grew, that cultural blueprint became essential. Core values held. Decision-making stayed close to the problem. And the entrepreneurial energy that defined the early days continued to drive the business forward.
Founders often underestimate how much harder it is to build culture retroactively. For Ting, it was something to be architected, just like the product itself.
Evisort grew from that seven-person founding team to over 300 employees in five years. That pace would tempt most companies to hire fast and figure things out later, but Ting didn’t do that.
In fact, he told his board he wouldn’t drop the talent bar just to go fast.
Every hire was treated like a long-term investment. He prioritized “talent density”: the idea that a team of high-performers holds each other to a higher standard and elevates output across the board. He avoided hiring for speed or prestige, focusing instead on people who wanted to build something durable and aligned with the mission.
This approach shaped how Evisort survived its biggest disruption: the COVID-19 shift to remote work. The company had just raised a major round. Momentum was high. Then, the world shut down.
Instead of scrambling, Ting focused the team around a single, shared goal. He opened every all-hands meeting by repeating that focus and reporting progress against it. That clarity, reinforced consistently, helped maintain accountability and culture through uncertainty.
The right people, paired with clear leadership, gave Evisort a critical advantage when things got hard, and helped it grow stronger on the other side. When Workday eventually acquired Evisort, the entire team came over. That kind of continuity isn’t automatic. It’s a sign the team was aligned, engaged, and operating on shared values. For founders, the takeaway is clear: if you build intentionally from the start, the culture you create can carry forward, even as the environment changes.
Long before Evisort was acquired, Ting ran the company like it was his to lose. That mindset—seeing the full picture, making hard tradeoffs, and staying close to every decision—shaped not only how he built the company, but how he navigated what came next.
When acquisition talks began, it wasn’t just about valuation or market fit. It was emotional.
“We created our dream job,” he said. “So if we don’t have that job, how does that impact us and our employees?”
That question weighed heavily. Ting wasn’t looking for an exit, he was looking for a way to keep building, at a greater scale. Fortunately, Workday made that possible. The entire team came over. The work continued. The mission stayed intact, but with more resources, more reach, and more room to grow.
What made the transition work was the culture Evisort had built. It wasn’t a founder-dependent operation. It was a team driven by shared values, clarity of purpose, and high standards, one that could plug into an enterprise environment without losing its identity.
Now inside a much larger organization, he hasn’t abandoned that lens. If anything, it’s sharpened. At Workday, he brings that founder perspective to product innovation, team leadership, and enterprise decision-making without needing to be in the CEO seat.
He also helps lead the development of AI agents—software that can handle routine, manual tasks so people can focus on higher-value work. His interest in agents grew naturally from his experience at Evisort, where AI was used to remove friction from legal workflows. Now, he’s applying that same logic at scale, helping reimagine how AI can support the workforce across industries.
If you're building something of your own, especially with an eye toward scale or acquisition, Ting says long-term survival comes down to three personal traits:
Strong teams and clear goals can get you through the easy days. These traits are what carry you through the hard ones.
From doing the unscalable work to building culture with intent, from holding the talent bar high to never outsourcing conviction, Ting’s story is a reminder that good leadership compounds. And for leaders willing to think like owners, now really is the best time to build.
Amir Khostavan:
Jerry, thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Future Work.
Jerry Ting:
Thank you, Amir. Glad to be here.
Khostavan:
Yeah, it's great. Everyone who has that itch to be an entrepreneur obviously wants to start a business, right? What was it for you that made you go, this is a step that I'm going to take, this is something that I'm going to dive into, and I'm gonna give it, I would imagine, my absolute all. What was it for you that made you want to be an entrepreneur and take that first step into starting Evisort?
Ting:
So I started a company called Evisort, which is AI for contracts. One of the first companies in the world to think about using AI for reading contracts. And the reason why I started it was I was solving a personal problem. I was sitting in law school, I was reading contracts, I was getting ready to become a lawyer. And I thought, wow, I don't like a lot of my job. It was a very visceral personal reaction. And I thought somebody's willing to pay me a couple hundred dollars an hour to do something. And the thing that I'm doing is very manual and it's very repetitive. What if we use AI to try to build a business? And that's how the idea came to be.
Khostavan:
Right.
Ting:
And so that was like the aha moment of, hey, I don't like to do this job as a lawyer. Someone's willing to pay me a lot of money for it. What if we use AI to try to build a business? And that's how the idea came to be.
Khostavan:
Why pivot to AI? What was it about AI that made you go like, this is, I mean, you had a problem that you wanted to solve. That's entrepreneurship 101, right? That's how to build a business 101. There's a problem that you're trying to solve, you find the solution to that problem. But what was it that made you go, I'm going to solve this problem through AI?
Ting:
It wasn't initially, there's a problem, I want to use AI. It was, there's a problem and I want to fix it. And when we started doing research from a founding team perspective, we realized that there's a lot of software companies out there already. I, as a lawyer, was using some of these software tools, but what we realized is that these software tools didn't tell you what's actually inside the contract. And it didn't tell you is it important or is it not important. And to solve the problem at that level of detail, we had to use AI. And this is 2016. So it wasn't easy back then to use a foundational model. We had to invent some of the technology. So we had a lot of conviction in the problem we're solving and how we wanted to solve it to the point where the technology didn't even exist. And we had to actually build that technology.
Khostavan:
Very curious to know what the reaction to those first 10 customers were when you presented Evisort and its platform to them. You said 2016, right? So this is before AI became the hot button topic that it is today. What were people's reactions when you presented this solution to them?
Ting:
They said, this is amazing. I've been practicing law for 20 years. I've been waiting 20 years for a solution like this, but does it work? And I think there was a giant "but," right? Cause when it comes to AI, you need to make sure that it works. And in 2016, it was an even bigger question. And so the way that we got them comfortable with that problem is that we started doing POCs very early in our sales motion. And POCs was proof of concepts, right? We literally give them the technology and say, play with it, test it yourself, and we're going to leave. We're going to give it to you, we're going to leave for a week. And then if you don't like it, then don't buy it. And that was a game changer for us because we knew the product was really good. And so if the customer had the pain, we solved the pain in a valuable way, and the technology works, we had a very high conversion rate.
Khostavan:
Okay, let's set the stage a little bit. You have five customers. You have two team members. You know that the product is working. You've tested it out. You know it works. The vision that you had is coming to life. How do you convince a venture capitalist to give you four to five million dollars for your startup? What are the steps that you take to get to that point?
Ting:
So I think fundraising is a reaction and a result of the good work before you fundraise. For the VC, what they're looking for is how do I get a 10X company? If I put money in today, if it's 4 million, then maybe it's a $20 to $30 million post-money valuation. How do I see that becoming a $300-plus-million-dollar company and maybe really $3 billion? So they're looking for even more than that. As an entrepreneur, your job is to actually stop operating for just a little bit and zoom out. When you're fundraising, you've got to zoom out. And you've got to say, at a 10,000-foot level, how do I communicate my vision and the business opportunity to somebody who absolutely does not care about my problem? I think the test that I use is go to your mom. And if your mom doesn't know the problem space, you've got to convince her at Thanksgiving that you're going to drop out of school to go do this full time. And if you can have that conversation, that's the same kind of thing you're going to have to have with a VC. I see a lot of entrepreneurs go in with these pitch decks that are super technical. They just want to know if you're an early stage, seed stage investor, if I get in, can this entrepreneur, can this person figure out the journey? So you also have to be interviewing for the role of the CEO.
Khostavan:
Jerry, that's fantastic. We're gonna talk about culture. Culture is a big thing at Workday, right? We talk about the core values. When you think back to the early days at Evisort, what is something that you did from the start that ended up being a key to building a strong and scalable culture?
Ting:
We try to keep the organization very flat from the start. And I think that really helped scale the organization and remove some layers of politics. So, Evisort grew really quickly. We went from zero to 300 employees in five years. And so, there was founding, refounding, new management teams, pain that came with that, and then the success that came with that. But from the very beginning, we actually started the company with seven people. And so, it wasn't just one person went out, raised money and I started a company. I started the company from the very beginning, very flat. And so these seven people, as the company got bigger, all went off to be leaders in different parts of the organization. But they brought that founder DNA with them. So one went into marketing, one into sales, two into product. And so they brought that founding ethos and that entrepreneurial spirit into these other organizations. And that was so important for us culturally.
Khostavan:
Absolutely. And was that easy for you to maintain that culture as the company grew?
Ting:
It was very difficult to maintain the culture because we also raised a lot of money. And so when you're growing really quickly, you're getting big customer logos, there's venture money coming in and you're winning every award that Silicon Valley likes to give out. It attracts a different kind of character. Not worse, but just different than the kind of people that start a company. And so for us, we were very careful as we're interviewing to not bring in people who are just profit motivated. We were very careful when we're interviewing to bring in people that wanted to be in for the long haul of the journey. And so we would interview way more than other companies. I have friends who run entrepreneurial ventures where they hire very, very quickly after a fundraising round. I told my board, no, we're not going to drop the talent bar just to go fast. We want to get the right people in. And that may take us an extra month to fill a role, but that's what we're going to do.
Khostavan:
I love that. I absolutely love that because maintaining that culture is super important to the growth of the company overall. Talking about growing the company, let's talk about some growing pains. Every startup has growing pains. They hit rough patches as it scales. Was there a moment at Evisort that really tested you? And if so, what did you learn from that that might help other leaders who might be watching this podcast navigate that phase that they're in at the moment?
Ting:
So this is a story that entrepreneurs of my vintage will resonate with. We raised a big funding round and then COVID happened. And so we went from a very tight-knit culture of in the office, six days a week, that kind of a thing, to working on Zoom. And employees were now moving out of state. It completely disrupted our operating model. It was very difficult because you go from an in-person environment where we’re eating dinner together most nights, to working remotely.
That’s when you have to get really good at setting clear North Stars, clear operating metrics, and then measuring for accountability. Because somebody could be at home watching Netflix for half the day. I remember being with a group of CEOs when COVID was happening, and we were all going remote. A lot of us were very worried. Some of us thought this was existential to the operations of our business.
What we actually found is that by setting the right culture and the right values, we actually kept going with our business and we accelerated our growth. And that’s something I’m incredibly proud of.
Khostavan:
That’s incredible. In regards to team building, how did your approach to building and empowering teams shift as Evisort grew? And now that you're at Workday, what's one of the principles about team building that still holds true for you?
Ting:
I think folks that are part of a team generally like to do good work, but sometimes they get misaligned. They need leadership to set a very clear goal that’s measurable. Then they have to get aligned to that goal. And for leadership, we have to rally them.
That’s something I did at Evisort and something I’m doing at Workday. It’s important to say, yes, there are many priorities. But for the next 12 months, this is the one that matters, and here’s why. Here’s how we got to that decision. And then I need you to do X, Y, and Z.
During monthly all-hands or meetings, I would always kick off by reminding the company: here is that goal we talked about at the beginning of the year. Here’s how we’re progressing against it. Then I’d call out areas where we need to improve and say, let’s go and take the hill head-on. That’s the way I led. I’m more of a wartime general than a peacetime general. But creating that momentum actually solved a lot of culture issues.
Khostavan:
I love that. Let’s talk about sustainability—sustaining a business. Especially since we’re focusing on starting and growing a business. Small businesses are the backbone of America. An interesting stat is that most small businesses don’t make it past the first year. Twenty percent fail in year one. Almost fifty percent fail within five years. Sixty-five percent fail within ten. What was it, if you could pinpoint one thing, that helped Evisort get past that first-year bump and each milestone after that?
Ting:
I think it's two things. First, employees. And I love this phrase: talent density. Talent density is just so important. You could hire ten people and if five aren’t great, you’re 50% down on performance. But if you hire ten people who are all really good—and they hold each other accountable with their work ethic, product, and values—you build a culture that uplifts itself and enforces high standards.
Second, focus on the customer. If your product is customer-centric, your sales team becomes customer-centric. The way you market and service your customer aligns to that too. So if you have a great team and a relentless focus on the customer, the company starts to run itself in some ways. But it’s easy for one of those two things to go off track, and that’s when problems arise.
Khostavan:
In talking about the longevity of a small business and the metrics of how long small businesses usually survive given the amount of time that they have been in business, what is a piece of advice that you would give to someone, an elevator pitch almost. If someone ran into you in an elevator and was like, you know, hey I just started my small business I'm really hoping that this thing grows. What is one piece of advice that you would give me to maintain the longevity of this business that I just started?
Ting:
I would say for the first couple of years, do non-scalable things. And that's very contradictory to how do you scale? How do you get big? But in the first couple of years, you're just trying to survive. You don't have to solve the problem elegantly that lasts as a solution for 10 years. I'll give you an example. For us in the beginning, you how do we get our first 10 customers? I just hustled. I just myself went out and got the customers. I called them, I visited them, I did that pitch myself, I didn't build a big marketing engine or a sales engine because I couldn't afford to, honestly. And I didn't need to, right? I just needed to get over the hump and get revenue in the door. And then once you do that, then you can think about how to do the next act. I see a lot of entrepreneurs in the very beginning, try to build very scalable solutions, spend a lot of time planning, a lot of time spending money, and then not actually moving the needle. So my number one advice for the first couple of years, is do non-scalable things and just punch through glass. Just run through the wall and then if you get to where you need to go in the first couple years, then you can think about the future afterwards.
Khostavan:
I love that. We’re on the Future Work podcast—so let’s talk about the future of work. What’s one lesson from building Evisort that will matter even more in the future of work? Are you seeing that show up in what you’re doing now at Workday?
Ting:
It’s clear that agents are going to be part of the workforce. Just like SaaS was the big thing for 15 years, agents are next. I’m helping build agents at Workday now. And it’s forcing us to rethink how we deliver value.
It’s not just our customers whose work is changing—our work as product builders is changing too. We’re going back to first principles. At Evisort, I saw software being used, and I thought, “this is good, but not great.” We’re trying to remove the parts of work people hate so they can focus on what they enjoy. In five years, people will look back and say, “I can’t believe we used to do that manually.”
Khostavan:
When people hear “agents,” some still look puzzled or skeptical. What’s your reaction to that?
Ting:
Two parts. First, simplify it. An agent does the boring parts of your job. If I don’t like driving, autopilot helps. My mom gets that.
Second, show them. Steve Jobs didn’t explain FaceTime with technical specs—he just used it on stage. Same with agents. When you see it, you get it.
Khostavan:
Got a few more for you here. You’ve gone through what many entrepreneurs dream of—an acquisition. Tell me about that experience. What was your reaction to Workday’s interest in Evisort, and how did that play out? How does your day-to-day now compare to what it was before?
Ting:
It's a deeply emotional experience. I don’t think founders talk about that enough. On one side, it's a huge celebration—we built a great company that someone is willing to pay hundreds of millions of dollars for. That’s the dream. On the other side, we were nervous. We loved what we were doing. Is that going to change?
We literally created our dream job. And if we don’t have that job anymore, what does that mean for us and our employees?
Luckily, Workday is a great company. All our employees came over. We kept doing our jobs. In fact, we got more investment, so we could go faster. I’m grateful to Workday for how they handle M&A. I contrast that with friends who get acquired and the founder leaves in six months. That wasn’t what I was looking for. I wanted to keep building—just do it bigger, do it internationally, and in more segments. And with Workday, we’ve been able to do that and more.
Khostavan:
Earlier you talked about you hustled a lot, right? You personally went to those 10 customers and got them to be the first customers for Evisor. When did you realize that your hustle mindset needed to evolve into a more sustainable and strategic approach? And what prompted that shift? When did you realize that you needed to be a little bit more strategic about that mindset?
Ting:
It was when I had a first couple set of customers and my time was becoming stretched. I was focusing on getting new meetings, pitching new customers, servicing the existing customers, making sure they're happy, having to run the product organization, having to run the engineering organization, having to fundraise, then having to make sure that our employees are happy. I wow, the CEO job is hard. And so when I felt really stretched like that was when I realized, we have to start thinking about building the next layer. And very, very lucky for me, I actually had law school classmates that were with me in the very beginning. So they were already following along in this journey and they naturally scaled to become the leaders of departments. And I'm so lucky for that because it was just up to me, we would have failed, right? But because I have friends and co-founders that were with me who are tremendous leaders in their own right, I was able to delegate a little bit and have that trust where maybe they're not gonna do it exactly the way that I do it, but that's okay. They're great. Let them run.
Khostavan:
I would imagine that you didn't go to school for entrepreneurship, right? You became a lawyer, right? And from there, you found a problem that was, let's say for lack of better term, the bane of your existence. And you wanted to address that and start a company. What is that mind shift look like when you're going from I am a law student and a lawyer to I'm a business owner. Because to me, those are two completely different things.
Ting:
I think the shift from being, I'll just say an employee, doing a profession, to being a owner operator is a huge shift. It's really something you can't learn in a textbook. And I think when you've run your own P &L, even if it's $1 in and $1 out, your brain goes into a different place. You start thinking about the totality of facts. You start thinking about short-term versus long-term. You start thinking about risk and where do you invest and where do you put bets. For me, that's really when your life activates, is when you're in that role and now you're thinking about the totality of facts. And I think for me, I encourage everyone to take on entrepreneurial endeavors. It doesn't mean start your own company. You can join and advise companies. You can be an investor. You can join nonprofits, but you have to think about the totality of facts. And I think for folks who haven't experienced that, it is a great awakening of the mind and of the intellect, but also of the heart. You care so deeply about what you're building.
And that's why people say an entrepreneur thinks about the company as their baby. It really is. It is something that was an ideal in my head, in my co-founder's heads. And we manifested a reality with people, with product, funding, with customers. It really is the great honor of our lives.
Khostavan:
Do you think that's why people romanticize the idea of being an entrepreneur, of having their own business? Obviously there is the allure of being in charge of your own time and kind of dictating your own things and not having to answer to anyone and those sorts of things, but do you think that also plays into the overall desire to start a business, to go after it, to follow that dream, to create something out of nothing and to see it succeed?
Ting:
I believe everyone wants to have purpose in life. It just looks in different forms. And I think for the people who want to take the hill and they want to do their best work, being a owner is the way to do that or being a part of that ownership team. And so for the first 20 employees, know, I literally hand delivered their equity package and I said, I'm not your CEO. I'm not your manager. You are an owner also. So in the five o'clock at night when it's easy to go to happy hour, but there's one more thing that you need to get done. Think about this as your house, right? If you had a piece of trash on your floor and you're at home, you would pick it up. Think about this company as yours. And I think when you have that culture and that mentality, you encourage people to be their best. And then you don't have some of the politics and the backstabbing because I used to say when there was friction, of course there's going to be friction. We all own the same equity. So let's go.
Khostavan:
Let’s talk about personal qualities. What do you think are the most essential traits for a small business owner to succeed and stay motivated through tough times?
Ting:
I think it's three things. You have to be tenacious. You have to be a problem solver. And I think you have to be good with relationships. I'll take those one by one. The reason why you have to be tenacious is that you're not gonna just be lucky every time. Even if you got lucky and you got to zero to a hundred million, you're gonna have a problem at a hundred million that you've never seen before. And so you gotta always be tenacious.
That leads to my second point, which is have to be a problem solver. I think being an entrepreneur is actually a very challenging task because you're solving problems that by definition you've never seen before. I went from being the HR person to the sales person to the product person to the customer success person. I've never done most of those jobs. And so for the first time, I'm thinking about a problem and I have to do it well at a very onset. And so you have to be a tenacious problem solver, but then relationship comes in. Relationship comes in because how you treat people matters. Your customers, your investors, your employees. When you have a good relationship and it bumps in the night, people give you more grace because they know that as a human being, you're doing your best. And I think that for me was one of the great gifts that I have was I have great relationships with all of my stakeholders. And so when there was difficulty, I was able to rely on those relationships, go to dinner, get in person, talk through how I'm trying to solve the problem. And people usually give me the benefit of the doubt.
Khostavan:
I love that. That is incredible insight, Jerry. Thank you. One bonus question before I let you go. Your top productivity hack?
Ting:
My best productivity hack is actually delegation. And my wife doesn't like this because sometimes I delegate to her and she says, I'm not an employee. But that's actually, it's a skill, right? And I think delegation is really hard for a lot of people because you have to be okay with a degree of uncertainty. If I did it myself, I would do it this way. But if I delegate, then there's a variance factor. I think being good at delegating is also going to be really important for the future of work because you also have to delegate work to agents, right? And it's the same kind of mindset. But for me to go from leading a small company to one with 20 people, to one with 50, to 100, to 300, and now leading a broader organization on workday, I can't do it all myself, right? Being able to delegate and being able to trust is a really, really critical thing for productivity.
Khostavan:
Great way to end. Jerry, thank you so much for your time and joining us on the Future Work podcast. Any final words of wisdom?
Ting:
There is no better time, I think, in the history of humanity to be an entrepreneur right now. There is no better time. I teach innovation and entrepreneurship at Harvard University. And I just finished my course a few weeks ago. And I was able to get together with the young people, the students that are going to be the future leaders. And I got to say, I was impressed. This is my fourth year teaching the same course. And every year, the students are getting more creative. The young people are getting more creative.
And I think it's because AI allows them to actually learn way more information than in the past. And then AI allows them to actually build early versions of their products without needing to incur too much cost. And so right now you have this great level of information and a great productivity tool, which is AI. If you combine those two things, it's a great time to be an entrepreneur. So it's just really, really exciting.
Khostavan:
Amazing note to end on. Thank you again so much, Jerry.
Ting:
Cool, thank you, Amir.
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