Workday Podcast: The Rise of the CIO, from the Cloud to AI

Julie Jares: Welcome to the Workday Podcast, I’m Julie Jares and today we are sitting in for an interview with David Smoley, winner of the Workday Customer lifetime achievement award at Workday Rising. While being interviewed by Rogerio Almeida, Dave brings us through his path to becoming a CIO and his decision to purchase Workday. 

Rogerio Almeida: Welcome to this Workday podcast. My name is Rogerio Almeida, and I am the group vice president of global partners at Workday, and I'm really excited to be here with one of my longtime friends and incredible customer of Workday, David Smoley. Welcome, Dave.

David Smoley: Thank you, Rogerio. Great to be here with you.

Almeida: So Dave, let's just jump right in. So you've got such a big standing in the industry. You've been a very large-scale CIO for an incredible number of very large companies over the years in all sorts of different industries. Can you tell us a little bit about your career and how it developed in the IT field, and your journey so far? 

Smoley: Sure. Happy to talk about that. Well, look, I was a high school student when Steve Jobs started Apple and Bill Gates launched Microsoft, and those radical changes and new innovations made a huge impression on me. I was very excited about, sort of technology and information from the beginning and I studied computer science and got into programming right away for a big bank, but that first job made me feel very much like a second-class citizen. We were programming these large systems that my boss couldn't describe for me what they actually did, just gave me the code. And it felt like we were not really a core part of the company.

Almeida: And why was that though?

Smoley: Most people coming out of college, the jobs you get are pretty junior, and you have people telling you what to do and all that. But part of it, too, was Wall Street. This was a precursor to JP Morgan, and those were big, heady times in Wall Street. And as is true across industries, technology was back office back then. And I didn't really like that. So I went back to grad school, got an MBA, focused on marketing and sales, which is another passion of mine, and joined General Electric in a product management role. Spent about five years in various fields, customer service and sales, and support roles in the industrial business. And then had this crazy situation where in a turnaround of an industrial company in Indiana of all places, the CEO said, "I'm having IT problems, and I need you to fix it. You're an IT guy." And I said, "I'm not an IT guy. I'm a marketing guy." He said, "No, no. I see your CV here. You're computer science. I want you to go fix this program." It was a large order management system.

Smoley: And that was a point where a combination of this CEO understanding the impact that technology could have, and putting me in there with my business experience and my technology, all of a sudden it kind of all came together I thought, “Wow, this is cool.” Because I was technically competent enough to work with these programmers and kind of cut through the BS and the jargon which was cryptic to the business leaders, and I knew enough about the business to be able to direct these guys. So it was this magical moment where it was like, "Aha, now it's strategic. Now it's important. Now it means something." And so from that point, I kind of flipped back over to technology and spent the last five years of my career in a series of increasingly responsible technology jobs and just fell in love with it. But finally, it became strategic. Once I got back into technology, I never really dreamed of being a CIO. And funnily, at the time at GE, the IT leadership role was also not viewed as important. But I felt like I was having such a positive impact, which is one of the amazing things about technology that I love, that I just stuck with it and had fun.

Julie: Fast-forward several years to Dave’s time at Flextronics, which was his first time at a public company. 

Smoley: And Flex was a large company that is a contract manufacturer, for all the big tech firms. I mean, Flex makes stuff for Apple, Cisco, IBM, you name it. And we were in 75 countries around the world, very process-oriented, and so that was just such an exciting job. And that's where I first came across Workday and brought Workday on. But Flex taught me a lot about change. And what I learned at Flex was whatever deal we were selling, the answer was always yes with the customer. "Can you do this? Can you build that? Can you move to China?" We would always say, "Yes." And then we would leave the room and huddle up and say, "Oh, my gosh, how are we going to make this happen?" And we would. And so working for that company taught me a lot about the power of positive thinking, the power of teams taking risks, looking for opportunities, going places where other people and other companies wouldn't go.

Almeida: Of course. Of course. David, we're going to go back to Flex and then, of course, AstraZeneca, and of course, Apple. You mentioned at one point, the role of the CIO, the role of IT, in general, was second, sort of a not very important role, like what the kids played with and the adults were really talking about other stuff. At which point in your career did you realize that maybe this is changing and maybe, actually, we're going to be ready to show very soon? 

Smoley: Almost every step of the way, there have been changes that were massive. And the first big one is that one I described at GE and those were early days. Now, it's much more common. In fact, it's almost pervasive Technology and AI is something everyone touches, which is a whole different problem of its own. But as I mentioned, along that way, it's been this long tide. In fact, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, if you were at a CIO event and they were talking about common issues, you would invariably end up in a conversation about, "Why are we not respected more? How do you get a seat at the table?" And I think we've moved on that. I mean, all functions have a little bit of that, right?

Almeida: Yes, quite.

Smoley: But I think there was a point where it really began to be appreciated and realized. When I left Flex and joined the AstraZeneca working for Pascal Soriot, the CEO there, it was specifically because Pascal, as a very dynamic, change-oriented CEO, said, "I need radical technology change, and I want a hard driving leader who's going to come in and just wreak havoc and break it and bring in new stuff." And that was a big transition. I think that sort of recognition is becoming more common. And on top of that, now you're getting more and more CEOs, CFOs, and others who are savvy and maybe even experienced in technology. Not only do they think it's important, but they may have actually done it at some point so they can drive that much more personally.

Almeida: And David, as you move from Flex now to Astra, there's a lot of influential people in your life. How important is this notion of mentorship and somebody that you can rely upon to help you make the decisions that you have to make at one point, that you don't really want to share with everybody what you have to do?

Smoley: Yeah. Massively important. So it ties back to exactly your question and point around mentoring and the importance of, throughout your career, whether you're CIO-aspiring or some other function, constantly scanning your environment inside and outside for people that you admire. And why do you admire them? And what is it about them that you would wish you could do or be or have? And then figuring out how to emulate that and create, even, relationships. And I think healthy companies and smart people do intentionally mentor their talent. It's a great way of attracting and keeping and growing talent. 

Almeida: People listening to this are probably thinking, "How can I one day be a David Smoley or get to a position of seniority in organizations?" Do you lead by collaboration? What's the secret there?

Smoley: Great question. Well, I think mutual respect and treating others as you would want to be treated yourself no matter what their level. Workday is admirable in this way, and it comes from Dave Duffield's legacy and Aneel's leadership. Those two are incredibly approachable by anyone. I was having a drink with Aneel recently at a Workday event, and people were streaming by and we're having a conversation, but he shook hands, and he never made anyone feel like, "Hey, you're being intrusive." And so I think that openness and availability is massively important. 

Almeida: That’s exactly right, I think, giving yourself time to do a great job and leave a legacy behind and go on to the next thing. 

Julie: Rogerio and Dave steered the conversation back to the obstacles that Dave faced in his years as CIO. 

Almeida: So take us through. So you were at Flextronics, and then you moved to AstraZeneca, and you created a revolution inside that company. And then, same thing at Apple when you moved over from AstraZeneca. But there must have been really tough moments and decisions to be made in these three companies and further back. But any moments that you think, "How do I face this obstacle? How do I make this better? What is the right decision to be made?" And then how do you make that decision? What are your thoughts around this, or something you can share?

Smoley: As Steve Jobs would say, the journey is the reward. Right? Most people think, "Oh, I just want to get to that role or that point or get this thing completed." That's the reward. Actually, it's the whole journey. And what you're describing is sort of what working at an exciting, leading-edge company is almost all the time. You're constantly battling, advocating. Actually, when I think about it, my experience in sales and marketing has come in so handy as a CIO or a head of software engineering because you're constantly marketing and selling your team, your team's capabilities, the products you're building, and things like that. 

Smoley: When I think of adopting Workday,14 years ago or something in the early days of SaaS, there were so many naysayers. It was so small and all these things. And so each one of those sorts of negatives in a given situation has to be sort of documented, and analyzed, and then evaluated a bit to decide what's the probability of success, and what's the risk or the downside of failure, I guess, so to speak. So if I think about adopting Workday years ago, the head of HR thought it was crazy. They didn't have the features or capability. Why would we invest in such an immature product? 

Almeida: This is back at Flextronics. Right?

Smoley: This is at Flextronics. Because at that time, many people had the perspective that you bought software. But SaaS ushered in a massive, massive change where products evolve real time, and you get feature upgrades continuously. And so you're not buying a product. You're buying a relationship with a leadership team that is committed to a vision, and is working continuously to sort of improve their product in a way that is helpful for you. And I saw that no, they don't have exactly what we need now, but they have a vision for something that's even better than anything we could dream of. And they're committed to us, and they're committed to our success. And we had this great partnership.

Almeida: At that pivotal moment of Workday's life, maybe Workday wouldn't have been what it is today if you hadn't made that decision that you did back then. And we're all very thankful. It's part of the fabric of the history of Workday is a decision that a certain CIO called David Smoley made back then. And it was the first large-scale customer that we had. So it was a big bet for you, and it was a career bet for you as well because if it had gone wrong, that would have been your job on the line.

Smoley: Yeah, exactly.

Julie: Moving on from his career up until the present, Dave offered his insights into the future of not only AI, but also its relationship to the role of CIO. 

Almeida: So David, let's talk a little bit about the future now. AI is everywhere. Everyone is talking about it. Is this real? And what do you think is going to happen?

Smoley: So it's very, very exciting right now. Everybody's talking about it. Everyone's trying to get their head around it. AI has been studied and developed since the '60s. Right? But the leaps in the last couple years have been radically faster and different in a transformational way, so that changes the way we look at this going forward. And I think it's super important for us as technology leaders and business leaders to be curious, and to constantly be thinking about and monitoring the evolution of AI. So what are the new developments? How can we experiment with this? How can we use it? How can we bring it into what we do? And I think it's a challenging task because the noise is high and the pace is fast, but we have to recognize that it is early.

Smoley: So the selection of partners-- who are the people that you trust to get information from? And much of the early I think, impact in AI is going to come from established partners and established tools adding AI to make what they do and deliver better, faster, and more impactful. I think that's a huge opportunity for Workday. I mean, Workday is adding AI as part of their suite to add power to it. What's incredibly effective about that is that AI depends on your data sets. Right? So in this case, if you're a Workday customer, then you have all your employee data, talent data, and so on in this database, which you can then leverage with AI tools and merge with external data or other companies as needed.

Almeida: And then CIO's, in your position, they're barraged with an enormous amount of information and data and new stuff that you have to-- where do you consume your information, and how would a CIO today try to get the right information from the right source, so that you don't get lost into the sea of noise that there is there?

Smoley: That's always a challenge. What I did, I belonged to a few sort of formal groups, if you will, of peers, local groups, national groups, international groups. And through those groups, I developed relationships with individuals who I admired and who I respected, and we would have conversations informally off the sidelines, or we would have discussions in these groups where they were more curated. That was a big source of trusted information. The other is partners. I had relationships over the years with Workday, among many others, and those companies that were the most impactful to my firm and to me, and who I felt were very leading edge, were companies that I considered almost an extension of my organization. 

Almeida: And, David, this is only going to go faster and bigger and more of it. Right? So as you say, we're at the very, very, very beginning of this, so.

Smoley: And it's scary, honestly. It's exciting. The rise of AI is incredibly exciting in terms of the potential. It's scarier than any of the previous waves because the risk for negative impact is greater, at least the perceived risk. And it's pervasive. This AI touches everybody. Whereas the move to the cloud, the move to graphical user interfaces, it was primarily a technological change that then had benefit for end users. In this case, you have CFOs, CEOs, CHROs, and people in their organizations that are going home and they're playing with it. And they're coming in with opinions. So it's high pressure.

Almeida: Yeah. It's controlling a box of frogs. Right? [laughter] Everyone is jumping in a different direction. But is there a fear of inaction from CIOs as well? So maybe there's so much, "I don't know what it is, so I'm just not going to do anything." And then by not doing anything, are you creating a bigger problem for yourself? How do you deal with that, especially from an AI perspective?

Smoley: Absolutely. It's tough, I think. And you asked me earlier sort of how the CIO role had changed over time. And this is one where it feels like you are behind. And to some extent, I think effective CIOs have to figure out how to empower the non-tech folks in their company to experiment and to do things in a safe manner. Right? I think you have to put guardrails in. I think you have to put policies in, and monitoring, and so on. But you have to set it up so that everyone in the company can contribute and can feel like they're a part of it. Otherwise, you'll drive wedges in between organizations. You'll create rogue splinter groups and that's difficult to manage.

Almeida: And I think that from a Workday perspective with ethical AI, I'd say it's one of the tenets of the organization, how it is that we want to progress. And we recently announced Workday Illuminate, which is the way that we're looking at approaching AI as well, David And so perhaps as we're wrapping this up, the question I have is that there's a lot of our listeners here thinking about their own careers, how are they doing the journey. There's a lot of change happening all around us. And when you look at the folks that are starting their careers, or maybe in mid-career, how do you look at talent? And how do you spot those incredible talents that are all there, just waiting to be found?

Smoley: I was schooled in talent development under the master, Jack Welch. He probably isn't as widely known or respected these days, but when he ran GE in the '80s and '90s, he took a very bureaucratic, tired, structured company and busted it up. And he got a lot of grief because he cost a lot of people jobs and he disrupted a lot of things. But he challenged the status quo for, "Why do we do things this way?" And if it didn't make sense or cost too much, he would blow things up. And I was a young leader under him, and GE was known at the time for talent development, and they invested a lot in that. They emphasized energy. Is this someone who kind of walks into a room and adds value through energy, or is it someone who kind of sucks and brings the atmosphere down? They emphasized intelligence, not necessarily academic credentials, but again that sort of intellect, sort of constantly thinking, connecting dots, associating, another innovative trait. And Jack Welch was driving a culture that said, "I don't care that you've not had 10 years as a plant manager. You seem to have a lot of edge and intellect and energy, and I'm going to give you a chance at this job, even though you're technically too junior."

Smoley: And he did that with a lot of people. And sometimes you fail.But a lot of times, people are just totally motivated by that kind of stretch. You know when you see someone like that. Right? They're just someone you feel like they're hungry. They want a little bit more. And I trust them." 

Smoley: So I'll give them a chance. Give them a little bit of a chance to fail in sort of a safe way, and encourage that.

Almeida: Yeah, I love that. And for me - I think that we spoke about this before - it's attitudes and aptitudes. If you have the right attitude, you learn. And if you really want to learn, then you'll do really well. 

Smoley: I think one of the things that I observe is the younger generations these days and part of it is the culture we're raising and the influence of social media, I mean, there's so many different pressures these days.But I think we have to work hard to sort of educate and communicate and demonstrate that you need to understand what the goal is, and you need to deliver results, or problem solve, or help others to sort of get engaged in achieving results in order to move ahead and move up.

Almeida: So look, you're a titan in the industry. Everybody knows your name. You've led thousands of people over your years. So what's next for David Smoley?

Smoley: I'm blessed to have developed a lot of fantastic relationships over the years that continue into my senior years, if you will. And I'm currently doing some investing and some technology advising of startup companies and CEO's, and who knows? I remain committed to being curious, and asking a lot of questions, and to networking. You have to network a lot as a business leader. But I find that keeping that network up is incredibly interesting. And with AI rising the way it is, it's a full-time job just sort of keeping up with the latest developments and the impact on the world.

Almeida: So David, listen, it's always lovely to see you, to hear your story. It's such an incredibly rich story of a very successful journey, and you have lifted so many people along the way, myself included, and lots of others. There's a deep gratitude from a Workday perspective for everything that you've done with us and for us. And I'm sure that our listeners here will have loved this conversation. Thank you so much. It was great to see you.

Smoley: Thank you, Rogerio.

Almeida: Really great to see you.

Smoley: I appreciate it. Thanks for the opportunity.

Julie: If you’ve enjoyed what you heard today, be sure to follow us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts and remember you can find our entire catalog at workday.com/podcast. I am Julie Jares and I hope you have a great Workday.